Dear Tim – The Nature of Sexual Immorality

Dear Tim (taken from an ongoing online chat),

1. “You do not know me or my brothers and sisters.” – You don’t know me either. What does that have to do with anything? I don’t have to “know” a person to understand their lifestyle is immoral.

2. “Stop trying to make yourself into God.” – I have never claimed to be God – I just proclaim what He has said.

3. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” – A catch phrase you have taken out of context, because you don’t know what you are talking about. You misquote Scripture because of several possible reasons. Since we have already established the fact that “I don’t know you or your brothers and sisters” I have no idea which reasons would apply.

4. “Your comment is immoral, hurtful and arrogant.” – The point of sharing God’s Word is to show the variance between what He has said and what we think is acceptable. It is a wide gulf, and I used to be a sinner as well (giving myself over to multiple women, hatred, violence, etc.). I finally came to understand the truth of God’s love, forgiveness and power, because I was willing to search for a better life than the one I had. Continuing in a deviant lifestyle will cement your hardened heart. I implore you to take advantage of the forgiveness and new life offered by Christ.

In response, Tim shared;

1. “Immoral? You have no intimate knowledge of my life and base your lies on assumptions. You refuse to acknowledge love and obsess with sexual relations. I have a soul and free will. You also do not know anything about my relationship with God. You have no right to vilify me. Unless you agree with some of the morons at the Vatican, souls have no gender. The Bible doesn’t explain everything…we are given consciences for a reason.”

2. “You are arrogant and claim to be an expert on my life. You know nothing and refuse to use compassion or simply listen when others try to inform and educate you.”

3 . “I was making a point. God is the absolute judge. Get off of your “high horse”. I don’t feel the need to quote the Bible to make a point. If I did, I would’ve given verse and scripture. People like you think only in black and white because you can’t think independently and want to use the Bible as a rulebook, whacking people over the head with it. Even Satan can quote scripture to his own purpose.”

4. “You are still a sinner. You bring no one to God with your finger pointing. You could make statements instead of judgments.
I have no hardened heart. I have anger at injustice. At arrogance, interference, lack of compassion and literalism that is unconnected to spirituality. I have friends who have been abused and murdered because of people who embrace ignorance.
I am a Christian. Do not interfere with my free will or another’s by spreading hatred and lies.”

1. You interjected yourself into the conversation and, by the content of your post, intimated you are either a practicing homosexual or some other type of sexually immoral person. Nevertheless, I’ll repeat my previous statement to clarify things for you; No, I DON’T know you – I don’t have to. I don’t have any animus toward you, either. However, you need to understand that if you persistently pursue ungodly desires (also known as “the lusts of the flesh” Ephesians 2:1-3; Titus 2:11-14; 1 Peter 4:1-5), you will reap a terrible judgment. On the other hand if you – through the Spirit – put to DEATH the [ungodly] deeds of the [flesh] body, you will live (Romans 8:12-13). On one count, for sure, you are mistaken – the Bible DOES “explain everything” (2 Peter 1:2-4).

2.Where exactly did I make such a claim? I simply proclaim ( generically in this instance) what God says in His Word. If your conscience is smitten then perhaps my Father is trying to say something to you? The only One I need to be “informed and educated” by is my Lord, through His Word. If you can share His Word to educate me, then by all means please do so! I always strive to learn from the Word, as it is a “lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path” (Psalms 119:103-105).

3. You are completely correct when you state that God is the Ultimate Judge. And Who do you think He will judge things by? He has committed all judgment to His Son, Jesus Christ – the Word made flesh. Jesus will use the Word to judge everything (Hebrews 4:12-13; John 5:22-23). You may also be interested to know that God commands His people to judge (as in discern) all things righteously (John 7:24; 1 Corinthians 6:2-3). The yardstick we are to use is the Word of God and not personal opinions.

4. “People like you think only in black and white because you can’t think independently and want to use the Bible as a rulebook, whacking people over the head with it.” You did well until you got to the “whacking people over the head with it” part, then you deviated from truth. The worst example in history is when someone “thought independently” and bad things happened (referring to Adam in the Garden). That same “independent thinking” causes all kinds of grief and heartache, pretty much every time an individual chooses to ignore or contradict the Word of God. Sometimes the negative effects are personal, sometimes the negative effects affect others. If you really ARE a Christian you had better base everything you say and think upon the immoveable and immutable Word of God – all else is shifting sand, sir.

5. I am no longer “a sinner.” That statement tells me a lot about how you were instructed in the Word, which apparently was incomplete and tragic in many, many ways. The Word of God calls everyone who has faith in, and becomes a disciple of, Christ, a saint. Sinners practice sin. Saints practice hearing the voice of the Shepherd. Sinners indulge themselves with meeting the ungodly desires of the flesh and mind (please refer to the quote in Ephesians mentioned above for further clarification). Saints are in the process of learning how to DIE to the flesh – just as our Elder Brother Christ did – by giving ourselves over to the leading of the Holy Spirit (Romans 12:1-2). That does not mean we are perfect – far from it! It DOES, however, mean that (as saints) if we sin we have an Advocate with God (1 John 2:1-2), and that the blood of Christ cleanses us from it (1 John 1:5-7).
You are fully allowed by God to operate in your “free will” however you want to operate in it (I am not speaking to you specifically – necessarily – but generically). But to think that practicing a lifestyle of sin and rebellion against God’s Word is acceptable to God is the sign of a lost soul. As for your “free will,” if you truly follow Christ then you should be submitting that “free will” to the Word of God in obedience – just as Christ did (Luke 22:41-42; Phil 2:5-8; 1 Peter 1:13-16).

After this exchange, we continued;

“You quoted and quoted and quoted and still ignore the point. LOVE is the subject. Souls do not have genders. “Men will be lovers of themselves…” says nothing about men loving men. The Bible denounces males raping other males and says nothing about love between same gendered people. They ignored the possibility back then. Jesus never denounced loving people. This is a test of compassion, love, and listening that you are failing because your heart is hard and your arrogant stand makes you feel important, powerful and fulfilled. If you really cared about the truth, you would seek it. You try to make yourself God over others. Worry about your own relationship with God instead of bearing false witness against your neighbor and perpetuating gross lies, misconceptions and twisting the word of God.”

1. “You quoted and quoted and quoted and still ignore the point. LOVE is the subject.” – God is love, and to prove that point He sent Christ to die in order to redeem us from our sinful nature. What do you think it means to be saved FROM something?

2. “Souls do not have genders.” – Please provide Scriptural references for what you claim – ESPECIALLY since you claim to be a Christian. Thanks in advance for doing so.

3. “”Men will be lovers of themselves…” says nothing about men loving men.” – That may be true of that passage, but then that is not the specific subject being addressed. So what about the following passages?

Rom 1:26-27
For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Jude 5-7
But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

1 Cor 6:9-10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Tim 1:3-11
As I urged you when I went into Macedonia — remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

4. “The Bible denounces males raping other males and says nothing about love between same gendered people.” – Please refer to the passages above. You should also know that there are many more similar passages available to read, should you look for them.

5. “If you really cared about the truth, you would seek it.” – I do, daily. It’s in the Word of God, which I continue to share with you.

6. “Worry about your own relationship with God instead of bearing false witness against your neighbor and perpetuating gross lies, misconceptions and twisting the word of God.” – All I do is share the Word of God with you, and you continuously call it “perpetuating gross lies, etc., etc., etc.” I am praying for you, Tim, that you will understand the deliverance available to you through the power of the resurrection of Christ. Only then will you be set free from the deception with which you are involved.

The crux of the matter is this, Tim. If you say that you are a Christian then you affirm that Christ has made you a NEW CREATION, and you no longer practice such things (also made plainly evident through the same Word I share with you). Christ has delivered us from SIN (the vile things mentioned in the passages above), which is the greatest act of true, REAL love the world has ever been shown. To think that “love” is anything other than what the Word of God says, and what He has DONE FOR YOU, is deception.

I pray my Father gives you understanding in this matter, as I fear for your soul.